I just dont think you could fit a 6 creed in an ar15 platform. These shooters we poled shot bench rest, PRS, F-Class and simi auto class. Gardner realized that the 6mm Creedmoor fit the bill perfectly for PRS use, so he modified an AR-10 to use the new cartridge. You can boost the performance of the 6mm ARC in a bolt action quite easily. Perhaps, someday. Ruger and Hornady decided to capitalize on growing demand in the United States and began selling factory 6mm Creedmoor ammunition and rifles for the cartridge during 2017. The 6mm ARC uses less powder at lower pressure, so less recoil. I think my buddy said 2700 fps rather than 2750 fps out of a 18" barrel. For a long time I have wondered about how barrel length affected velocity. He mentioned that he wants to invent a new cartridge by necking down a 6.5mm Creedmoor to a 6mm and that it would make a mean varmint cartridge. Definitely not worth arguing. Accuracy wise, Id say flip a coin. Proprietary parts other than the float tube so you'll have to have one built if you go this route. Since its still a relatively new cartridge, most hunters probably dont know very much at all about the 6mm Creedmoor. 6.5 Grendel. .223 and 5.56 are the same bullet diameter (.224") and basically the same brass. Only time will tell for sure, but we think the new ARC has a good chance of becoming a mainstay in the world of competitive gaming. rifles come with 1:10 twists, which are not quite quick enough to stabilize today's longest, highest B.C. But what does that mean for terminal ballistics? The cartridges are otherwise identical up to the shoulder and both cartridges have the same SAAMI maximum pressure of 62,000. At 1,000 yards, the 6mm Creedmoor drifts about a foot more than the 6 . The rifle and cartridge performed beautifully and Snows column about the whole project appeared in the August 2010 issue of Outdoor Life. Even though it has the longest case of the bunch, the .243 Winchester has a 20 degree shoulder, which is not quite as sharp as the 30 degree shoulder shared by the 6mm and 6.5mm Creedmoor cartridges. Video marketing. Your point about rifle availability is a valid point. It may not display this or other websites correctly. But I am in the market for another bolt action and am patiently waiting on Howa to release their mini action. Hornady recommends 1:9 twist or faster for its 105-grain A-Max and BTHP Match. Just playing in GRT, 6ARC would get 2400ish and the 6CM would get 2700ish. Heres why: First and foremost, the new ARC is designed to be more durable than its predecessor. Since this article is focused on the performance of these cartridges for hunting, I didnt include any ballistic data past 500 yards in the table above. 6mm ARC Energy vs 6.5 Grendel Velocity makes a difference, but if you are concerned about how the bullet performs at the target; how well it can harvest game at certain distances, then energy is extremely important. Maximum pressure obtained from SAAMI (p23 and p26 for the .243 and 6.5 Creed) and here for the 6mm Creedmoor. .5.56 is generally loaded to higher pressure than .223. The question of whether or not the new ARC will last has been on everyones mind since it was first announced. I think the trick is not just looking at each of those things in isolation, but trying to strike the "right balance" between those competing . Sunday GunDay: New 6GT Cartridge Tested in 3 Tactical Rifles How does an "avid reloader" figure a cartridge is capable of outperforming another cartridge that has 50% more case capacity? Like the .243 Winchester, the 6mm Creedmoor is also a really good varmint as well as big game hunting cartridge. I've gone back and forth on the 6mm Creedmoor, 6.5 Creedmoor, 260 Rem, 6mm Dasher, and the 6XC so many time my head is spinning! 6mm ARC vs 243: Cartridge Comparison by Ammo.com We do deal with a lot of different cartridges and firearms so either he or I could be getting the numbers mixed up. JavaScript is disabled. Even so, the 6mm Creedmoor has received a lot of press because its undeniably well designed and offers definite advantages over similar cartridges. The other 2 was Remington actions ALL with a full bull Bench-Mark barrels 1in 7.5 twist. Makes for a crazy lightweight 6.5 grendel in their Howa carbon stalker. Nosler provided the data used to compare the recoil of the .243 Winchester (here). It also has very little recoil, making it a great choice for shooters of all experience levels. If we look at the debate of the 6mm Creedmoor vs 6.5 Creedmoor for PRS shooting and competitions, both have their own merits. (This post was last modified: 05-14-2022, 09:29 AM by, (This post was last modified: 05-14-2022, 09:54 PM by. Id guess its tied to the myth that bigger cartridges need more barrel length. I only get 2680fps out of my 22" barrel. For the sake of discussion, why do you believe that the ARC will overtake the Grendel? Using 6mm Creedmoor in a 6.5mm Creedmoor rifle? - Shooters' Forum Available components is why the 6mm ARC makes sense, well that was the theory prior to Covid. The 6mm Creedmoor can be seen as the replacement for the .243 Winchester, so all the animals that was generally considered fine to be hunter with it, the 6mm Creedmoor can be used to hunt with just as well. I love my Uintah rifle it shoots beyond my expectations for what it is. The 6 ARC can be built on mini actions such as the CZ 527, Howa Mini, Sako AI. However, the extra recoil is not enough to make the Creedmoor unmanageable for most shooters. Review: Hornady 6mm ARC. fps Burn % Pressure max 6mm ARC - Alliant Reloder-17 *T 109.3 30.9 2621 98.4 62000psi 6mm Creedmoor - Alliant Reloder-26 *C 102.3 47.8 2837 99.4 62000psi Wait til after hunting season? bullets have more frontal surface area, more resistance to wind drift, and carry more energy down range. The 6.5 Creedmoor commonly uses 120gr, 140gr, and 143gr bullets. Currently 6mm ARC ammo is harder to come by than 6mm Creedmoor. It is more suited for the shorter action rifles like AR-15s and the Howa Mini Action rifles. Loaded with a high BC 103 grain ELD-X bullet, 6mm Creedmoor Precision Hunter ammunition has a flatter trajectory and carries more energy down range than any other factory loads for 6mm Creedmoor hunting ammo currently available. This helps support the blog and allows me to continue to create free content thats useful to hunters like yourself. Cartridge - Powder Fill % Charge Vel. The 6mm Creedmoor or 6Creed as some call it, was a natural evolution as with almost any other 6.5mm Creedmoor that was eventually necked down to 6mm for faster muzzle velocities and lower recoil for PRS style racegun competitions. Bullets4Bucks is a participant in affiliate advertising programs designed to provide income. Here's some bolt gun load data. Federal has 6.5 Creedmoor factory-loaded ammo, including the American Eagle 140-grain Match bullet. The 109's are tailored to cartridges such as 6mm Creedmoor, 6mm BR, 6 Dasher, 6XC, 6BRX, and 647 among others. All the die manufacturers including Hornady, Lyman, Redding, RCBS and other make 6mm Creedmoor Dies, but out of all of them that I have used, I still prefer the Redding as the best 6mm Creedmoor Dies for sale, because of the quality of the product, and then the design of the expander which works very well for me. Yes it is designed to run in AR15-platform rifles. https://www.hornady.com/assets/site/hornady/files/load-data/6mm-ARC-gas-108-110gr-data.pdf, https://www.hornady.com/assets/site/hornady/files/load-data/6mm-arc-bolt.pdf, Peterson Brass Belted Mag Basic Unprimed Box of 50, .300 Weatherby Mag 170 G Hammer Custom Hollow Review help. Bill, Appreciate your input. As far as I know I the 6 CM has much more case capacity and higher operating pressures so I'd expect more velocity especially with longer barrels. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. It's not even worth a discussion, even in a 16in barrel the 6CM is hundreds of fps faster than the 6ARC. [5] For these shots, high shoulder is recommended. What do you think of the 6mm ARC? | BladeForums.com The 6mm Creedmoor has been out a while. The Creedmoor has about 17% more recoil than the ARC, so it is a bit more punishing to shoot. My take on this is, why opt for 1 when you can have both? The 6mm cartridge shoots a 6mm (or .243-inch) bullet while the 6.5 Creedmoor uses a larger 6.5mm (or .264-inch) projectile. This will give you a good, safe starting minimum load to work upwards from. While all three cartridges are known for their exceptional accuracy, the 6mm and 6.5mm Creedmoor cartridges are usually better suited to use high BC and high SD, heavy for caliber match grade hunting bullets than the .243 Winchester because of the aforementioned faster rifling twist in rifles chambered for those cartridges that stems from their target shooting roots. Disclosure: Some products are provided by companies as samples or by friends for testing and evaluation. The 6mm Creedmoor 108-grain ELD Match is 2,960 fps. If you are looking for a versatile round that can be used for both target shooting and self-defense, the sixmm ARC is a good choice. They decide that with their own hard-earned money. 6mm ARC vs 6.5 Grendel - Performance Comparison - The Lodge at AmmoToGo.com the idea of a 6ARC bolt platform is always lurking in the back of my mind.which intrigues me as I always preferred semis based on a MIL issue platform. That is not cast in concrete however and many larger CXP3 animal have been taken with 6mm Creedmoors, but usually either at long range with high-shoulder shots, or close range with headshots, but this is not recommended. 6mm CM is over 200fps faster even pushing the ARC with a more compressed load. This is one of those cases where I think doing that really makes sense in the short term. Both Cartridges have real advantages & disadvantages. The new 6mm ARC from Hornady is currently gaining huge popularity as the newest 6mm on the block, and although it has its merits, ballistically it does not come close to the 6mm Creedmoor ballistics as it cannot hold nearly as much propellant. Preview: Hornady 6mm ARC | An Official Journal Of The NRA I just need to get smarter on the bolt world before I make any commitment. These include the weight of the bullet, the velocity at which it is fired, and the type of ammunition it is made from. You can push a 6mm arc a little harder than the factory offerings in a bolt gun, and in fact, the hornady reloading manual has two separate sections for loading the 6mm arc, (gas gun/bolt gun) based on maximum pressures of 55k, and 63k, (if my memory serves), but even at the 63k, it lags well behind the 6mm creedmoor. So, take all that for what you will. The sixmm ARC has enough stopping power to take down small game, but it is not ideal for self-defense against larger animals or humans. The much newer 6mm Creedmoor is by far the least common. 243 vs 308 vs 7mm-08: Which Is Right For You? The powder capacity isn't even close. Definitely not worth arguing. JavaScript is disabled. However, if you are looking for a round that is specifically designed for self-defense, you may want to consider something else. Since those rifles also typically have a relatively fast rifling twist, theyll accurately shoot heavier bullets with a high ballistic coefficient. Update July 2021: Ammo supplies finally look like theyre starting to recover. The 6mm Advanced Rifle Cartridge (6 ARC) by Hornady is a new cartridge that can fire a sleek 6mm (.243) caliber projectile around 2,700 fps with minimal recoil and the 6mm ARC is short enough to fit within the dimensions of a standard AR-15 magazine and it performs very well out of an AR-15 with an 18 inch barrel (what we tested). That being said, if a guy wanted to push that type of speed and bullet weight, the 6mm Creedmoor is a better solution in my opinion. With that said, lets take a closer look at the terminal ballistics of the two calibers in question. 100-grain load exiting at 3,100 fps, and the .243 Win. In addition to Hornady, Barnes, Federal, Nosler, and Remington all currently produce 6mm Creedmoor factory ammo. If youd like a more detailed rundown of the strengths and weaknesses of the .243 Win, read this article: 243 vs 308 Win vs 7mm-08: Which Is Right For You? As can be seen with the Kudu bull taken at 180 yards late evening with a well place head shot. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CrwuCyjGbE, HK MR762 Review: A Comprehensive Look at the Upgraded Rifle, Pelican Case Foam Cutting: How to Cut Perfectly Every Time, This div height required for enabling the sticky sidebar, 2022 Yestactical.com We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites. PS - If anyone needs a box of 6mm Creedmoor 105 gr BTHP Hornady BLACK, 20 rounds, and lives in Southeast Michigan, send me a PM, I'll give ya a good deal Click to expand. The cartridge is also well suited for handloaders and since it uses the same .243 bullets as 6mm cartridges like the .243 Winchester, the 6x47mm Lapua, the 6XC, and the .240 Weatherby Magnum, there are a variety of great .243 bullets currently available. The Eagle Eye 6.5 Creedmoor shoots a 130gr hybrid projectile with a .295 G7 at 2,960fps from an average 26" barrel. FORLOH AllClima Softshell and AllClima Stretch Woven Pant Review. Initially to create 6mm Creedmoor brass cases, one would simply neck down high quality 6.5 Creedmoor brass with a good full length sizing die and enough case lube. similar to a .260 Remington) but with a long neck and the proven 30 degree shoulder angle that is seen so often in the top performing accuracy cartridges. Yes, the ARC is an incredibly powerful round that can take down even the largest animals with ease. Coming out of the muzzle, it maintains speeds around 2,750 to 2,800 fps. Im shooting 108eldm out of my 6mm creedmoor and really messing them up. 6MM Creedmoor; 6.5 Creedmoor; 308 Win; MLR 28 Nosler; 7MM Rem Mag; 300 PRC; 300 Win Mag; AR-15 Complete Uppers 204 Ruger; 22 Nosler; 223 Wylde; 5.56 NATO; 6MM ARC; 6.5 Grendel; 6.8 SPC; 300 Blackout; 350 Legend; 450 Bushmaster; 9MM; AR-10 Complete Uppers 22-250 Rem; 243 Win; 6MM Creedmoor; 6.5 Creedmoor; 308 Win I personally would choose a lighter bullets for coyotes. So, the Creedmoor has about 17% more energy at the muzzle than the 6mm ARC. and 240 Wby. The 6mm ARC cartridge is a new SAAMI-spec cartridge based on the 6.5 Grendel case necked down for 6mm bullets, with the shoulder moved back 0.030. 6mm ARC vs 6mm Creedmoor Shorty? | Page 2 | Long Range Hunting Forum THANK YOU. Recoil vs cartridge study over the past year and findings. People quickly make jokes about the 6.5 Creedmoor cartridge when they hear a shooter has it, but you never hear anybody joke about the 6mm Creedmoor, as there is no denying the seriousness of a 108gr ELD-M bullet charging down range at 3100+ fps. I'm not disputing his numbers, because no 2 guns are the same, and he may be using his own loads where I'm shooting factory ammo. The 6mm ARC achieves substantially better ballistics than the 223/5.56. Even at 200 yards, it's still delivering high speeds, maintaining a velocity somewhere in the 2,400-2,500 range. If you can not see the tyranny of having a gun ban enforced by men with guns Then you fail to understand why the second amendment was written in the first place. My 6 creedmoor is a 22 inch barrel. Exclusive Shootout: 6mm Creedmoor vs. the 6.5 - Shooting Times